Hellfire

[Mythos Inibri]

Yeah,I was on my way to work just listening to some tunes and some idiot next to me at a stoplight turns up his stereo until I thought his truck would fall apart.The only thing the band he was playing did was thump a bass drum.There is no fucking talent or skill thumping a bass drum every few seconds.I finally get to work and part of my equipment is missing.Rotten night..anyways when I finally get into my car to go home Darkthrone - Paragon Belial is playing and it's too fucking hot and I'm pissed off..I turn it up extremely loud with the snare drum and cymbals flying at top speed and Nocturno's guitar just cutting through my ears like a knife and as usual his hellish tortured sounding vocals just screaming with all his might and I felt like I fit in this world:monkeybang

Fuck rap music!

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Damn, you'd hate it in San Antonio, bro. We get those little bastards about every 3-4 cars in traffic here.....it's like some wierd symphany of retardedness in 5 'o' clock traffic where the only instrument used is a sythesized bass tone. But fortunately, good sir, I normally have some Acid Bath, Cannibal Corpse, or Napalm Death on hand. And yes, the screaming tortured vocals make me feel like I fit in this world as well. You should try blasting Immortal next time in traffic when that happens.... :bat

[Mark Carras]

The real shocker is that it takes less talent then you even think, because the bass is done by a computer. Most of those songs are using the same sample over and over again. They just piece it together on a computer and then talk over top of it.

It gets worse. The 'rapper' isn't even the one that creates the 'music' most of the time. It is a producer. Many times they are white. Yup, white guys create the majority of rap. Then they bring in the 'thug gangsta' to talk over top of it and be the figure head for the album cover. Rap is about the most useless crap even done.

What really pisses me off is when people try to tell me that I am racist because I hate rap. It shuts them up when I tell them if I want black music I would listen to someone with talent like Ella Fitzgerald or Muddy Waters. When they ask "Who are they", I tell them they don't know shit about black music and then I walk away. This has left even some black kids really pissed with a puzzled look on their face. :rotfl

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Heh...hating rap doesn't make one racist. Eminem sucks as well.....:evil

I have a Jamaican friend who nearly shit himself when I told him that 2 of the members of Suffocation are black.

[Mark Carras]

Heh...hating rap doesn't make one racist. Eminem sucks as well.....:evil

I have a Jamaican friend who nearly shit himself when I told him that 2 of the members of Suffocation are black.

Yeah, the list of black musicians I enjoy is huge, so people thinking you have to like rap or you are a racist just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Rap fucking blows and is an inferior style of music. Even with as much as I hate band's that put 45 minutes of blast beats on a cd and call it music...at least they are really hitting those drums. Even if they use triggers they still have to 'trigger' that sound. With rap they pay someone else to do their cut and paste on a computer. There is very little (if any) actual instruments even involved. How can someone not see how it is inferior?

If I want to listen to black music, I kick it REAL old school. Give me some back porch blues, or some freaky jazz shit, or even some of the black gospel over that rap shit any fucking day. Now that is real music done with actual instruments! :metal

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Triggers only make the sound the same every time.....you still have to hit the skin per beat. :cool

I know what ya mean about the rappage....there are a few artists here and there (Roots for one example) who actually do play their own stuff....and even though I don't like the music, I still think it's great and a million times better than those guys that "make beats" on their pc.

[Mark Carras]

Triggers only make the sound the same every time.....you still have to hit the skin per beat.

Yep, that was my point. They still are playing the thing. Where as 99% of the rappers do not play an instrument. No matter what I think of any style of music, I will take people who actually play instruments over widgets who are just talking over music someone else created for them on a computer.

Even industrial music is better because even though computers are involved, the artist on the cover is the one creating the music on the computer...along with the guitarist is real as well. Just further proof of why rap is the most inferior style of music ever made.

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Yep, that was my point. They still are playing the thing. Where as 99% of the rappers do not play an instrument. No matter what I think of any style of music, I will take people who actually play instruments over widgets who are just talking over music someone else created for them on a computer.

Even industrial music is better because even though computers are involved, the artist on the cover is the one creating the music on the computer...along with the guitarist is real as well. Just further proof of why rap is the most inferior style of music ever made.

dude, mark this on your calender: We have never agreed more. :monkeybang

[Mark Carras]

dude, mark this on your calender: We have never agreed more. :monkeybang

Hey, it does happen every once in awhile. :D I also want to add that I sent a bulletin with pretty much this same rant through our MySpace account. I have NEVER seen a bulletin post on MySpace get such a reaction. All but one was thanking me for what I said and the way I said it. :metal

[Mythos Inibri]

Hey, it does happen every once in awhile. :D I also want to add that I sent a bulletin with pretty much this same rant through our MySpace account. I have NEVER seen a bulletin post on MySpace get such a reaction. All but one was thanking me for what I said and the way I said it. :metal

But did you check out the song Paragon Belial by Darkthrone yet?:wtf
It is a Black Metal Masterpiece.I think even you would be impressed Mark.
I'll expect a review on that song from you:evil

[Mark Carras]

But did you check out the song Paragon Belial by Darkthrone yet?:wtf
It is a Black Metal Masterpiece.I think even you would be impressed Mark.
I'll expect a review on that song from you:evil

Ok, I'm lost. What does that have to do with the topic at hand? :wtf

[Vertigo]

Oh good lord... I can't disagree with you guys more. Just because the peices of music come from sounds on a synthesizer does not mean that the people still don't write their own music. You have to actually PLAY the keys on the keyboard when the synth is on a certain setting, save it, find another setting, play the keys, save it, find another setting, play the keys, save it, then put it all together. It takes hours upon hours to create pieces of music on a synth (at least good ones). Just as it takes hours upon hours to write a guitar riff, bring it to band pracitce, show it to your band mates, have your drummer play a beat, have your singer come up with lyrics, have your bassist come up with a line, etc until you have a song. Yes, a producer may come up with a beat, and then bring it to the studio/rapper and then the rapper raps over it... it's a collaboration of art between musicians, just the same as writing a metal or rock song.

Plus the rapper has to sit through quite a few beats that may not work for them until they find one that sounds good to them to put the lyrics they've got in their head to. Also, producers like the Neptunes, Timberland, Dre and so on are constantly writing beats and then passing their beats on to rappers and pop singers to use. In fact, I was going through my brother's music on the computer the other day, and he has a ton of songs listed under "(nep)" meaning the beats were produced by the Neptunes, but the artists vary from Snoop Dogg to Britney Spears.

You may not PERSONALLY LIKE rap, but that does not mean that the people behind the beats are not musicians.

Also, I'll take some of the rap lyrics I've heard over some of the metal lyrics I've heard any day. Rapping isn't "easy" by any stretch of the imagination. Just because people around here don't put it as #1 on their list doesn't mean those musicians aren't validly talented. :wtf

[Mark Carras]

Oh good lord... I can't disagree with you guys more. Just because the peices of music come from sounds on a synthesizer does not mean that the people still don't write their own music. You have to actually PLAY the keys on the keyboard when the synth is on a certain setting, save it, find another setting, play the keys, save it, find another setting, play the keys, save it, then put it all together. It takes hours upon hours to create pieces of music on a synth (at least good ones). Just as it takes hours upon hours to write a guitar riff, bring it to band pracitce, show it to your band mates, have your drummer play a beat, have your singer come up with lyrics, have your bassist come up with a line, etc until you have a song. Yes, a producer may come up with a beat, and then bring it to the studio/rapper and then the rapper raps over it... it's a collaboration of art between musicians, just the same as writing a metal or rock song.

Plus the rapper has to sit through quite a few beats that may not work for them until they find one that sounds good to them to put the lyrics they've got in their head to. Also, producers like the Neptunes, Timberland, Dre and so on are constantly writing beats and then passing their beats on to rappers and pop singers to use. In fact, I was going through my brother's music on the computer the other day, and he has a ton of songs listed under "(nep)" meaning the beats were produced by the Neptunes, but the artists vary from Snoop Dogg to Britney Spears.

You may not PERSONALLY LIKE rap, but that does not mean that the people behind the beats are not musicians.

Also, I'll take some of the rap lyrics I've heard over some of the metal lyrics I've heard any day. Rapping isn't "easy" by any stretch of the imagination. Just because people around here don't put it as #1 on their list doesn't mean those musicians aren't validly talented. :wtf

I don't think you understand how it does indeed work (not trying to be insulting but how many producers have you talked to). It is not an artist collaboration at all. Sure that may happen with the REALLY big names, but that is not the norm at all. The rappers are shoved into a studio with EVERYTHING already done. They then work with what is handed to them.

The producers (for the most part) do not create the beats either. They cut and paste them in Pro-Tools (from sample cd's as well as rock and metal bands). The 'beats' are recycled so much it would make your head spin. This is why they have to sample from rock and metal so often. I ask you this...how often does a metal band 'sample' a rap song? Not too often is it? The reason, metal doesn't need to because in metal and rock they actually play their instruments. In rap they pay a producer to play with pro-tools.

As far as rap being easy, I think it is way more easy then singing. At least I find it to be so simple to do that it is boring.

[Vertigo]

I don't think you understand how it does indeed work (not trying to be insulting but how many producers have you talked to). It is not an artist collaboration at all. Sure that may happen with the REALLY big names, but that is not the norm at all. The rappers are shoved into a studio with EVERYTHING already done. They then work with what is handed to them.

The producers (for the most part) do not create the beats either. They cut and paste them in Pro-Tools (from sample cd's as well as rock and metal bands). The 'beats' are recycled so much it would make your head spin. This is why they have to sample from rock and metal so often. I ask you this...how often does a metal band 'sample' a rap song? Not too often is it? The reason, metal doesn't need to because in metal and rock they actually play their instruments. In rap they pay a producer to play with pro-tools.

As far as rap being easy, I think it is way more easy then singing. At least I find it to be so simple to do that it is boring.


Not to be insulting, but how many behind the scenes rap artist DVD's have you watched? ;)

And yes, talking in a rythym can be easier than singing in falsetto or whatever, but I'm talking lyrics here...

[MistressSpin]

Not to be insulting, but how many behind the scenes rap artist DVD's have you watched?

Try reading, again, what he wrote, without the distracting opening line.

It is not an artist collaboration at all. Sure that may happen with the REALLY big names, but that is not the norm at all. The rappers are shoved into a studio with EVERYTHING already done. They then work with what is handed to them.

The producers (for the most part) do not create the beats either. They cut and paste them in Pro-Tools (from sample cd's as well as rock and metal bands). The 'beats' are recycled so much it would make your head spin. This is why they have to sample from rock and metal so often. I ask you this...how often does a metal band 'sample' a rap song? Not too often is it? The reason, metal doesn't need to because in metal and rock they actually play their instruments. In rap they pay a producer to play with pro-tools.


Note this sentence in particular:

Sure that may happen with the REALLY big names, but that is not the norm at all.

Speaking of the "underground", as that is where my experience comes from, Mark hit the nail on the head with rap music.

I have spent a lot of time with studios, producers, rappers, etc talking about rap and its "creation".

When I went to Las Vegas, I even ran into a rapper there, giving CD's away on the strip, asking for donations, and had quite the intersting conversation with him and some of the music scene there in Las Vegas.

My bottom line is this: a computer is not a musical instrument. Therefore, use of a computer does not make you a musician. It makes you a computer programmer, studio technician/engineer, or a producer. But not a musician.

90% of rap is created as Mark stated. The other 10%, believe it or not peeps, is actual, respectable, art. :shock Still doesn't mean you have to like it tho. :D

[Vertigo]

Try reading, again, what he wrote, without the distracting opening line.
My reading comprehension was tested at 100% thank you. I read what he wrote, and I do "understand" how it does indeed "work" - my response is from my actual personal experience of watching a lot of underground rap battle DVD's and other DVDs from artists like Jay-Z and movies about the old school rap scene with my brother in law who lives with me who is totally into hip hop and rap. We spend a lot of time watching DVDs and behind the scenes stuff about this genre... I'm sure a lot more time than most anyone else on this forum, since this forum is based in the metal and rock genres. I'm not disrespecting Mark's experience in the overall music scene, but I'm making sure that he knows that I'm not a retard and kinda know what I'm talking about... to a certain degree... at least a little bit. ;)

Speaking of the "underground", as that is where my experience comes from, Mark hit the nail on the head with rap music.

I have spent a lot of time with studios, producers, rappers, etc talking about rap and its "creation".

So have I. Most of my friends are musicians. Some of my friends make music with instruments and some of my friends make music with computers or synthesizers... (to be cont.)

When I went to Las Vegas, I even ran into a rapper there, giving CD's away on the strip, asking for donations, and had quite the intersting conversation with him and some of the music scene there in Las Vegas.
Sounds great. I'd love to have the same experience, but that statement doesn't prove to me that "rap" is invalid as a form of music.

My bottom line is this: a computer is not a musical instrument. Therefore, use of a computer does not make you a musician. It makes you a computer programmer, studio technician/engineer, or a producer. But not a musician.
(cont.) ...One of my friends spent $2500 on a "keyboard" that happens to be the same one used by professional rap producers. We even wrote a couple of songs together, using "real" instruments and then saved our songs on the hard drive of this "keyboard" and let me assure you that my friend of whom I speak is 100% a musician. You can hear his latest creations here: http://www.myspace.com/aedryanmusic

90% of rap is created as Mark stated. The other 10%, believe it or not peeps, is actual, respectable, art. :shock Still doesn't mean you have to like it tho. :D

90% of pop and over-popularized rap that's overplayed may be created that way, but I don't listen to that crap, and I'm not defending that crap.

I'm not trying to force people to like rap. I'm not even trying to force anyone to recognize it as a musical art, but I am stating that I believe it is musical art and nothing will change that. These people do have talent.

[MistressSpin]

My, someone is certainly on the testy side today. :wtf

....about the old school rap scene with my brother in law who lives with me who is totally into hip hop and rap. We spend a lot of time watching DVDs and behind the scenes stuff about this genre...

Old school is old school. How they did it then does not necessarily compute to how it is done now. Very similar, indeed, to metal....


Sounds great. I'd love to have the same experience, but that statement doesn't prove to me that "rap" is invalid as a form of music.

I'm unsure of where, in that statement, I said that it was an invalid form of music. :wtf Maybe you can point that out to me.


(cont.) ...One of my friends spent $2500 on a "keyboard" that happens to be the same one used by professional rap producers. We even wrote a couple of songs together, using "real" instruments and then saved our songs on the hard drive of this "keyboard" and let me assure you that my friend of whom I speak is 100% a musician. [/url]

A keyboard is a musical instrument. It is a modern day replication of something called a piano. Difficult concept, I know, but none the less, it does implicate the keyboard as a musical instrument.

Downloading music from a keyboard to a computer to further edit, work with is called producing.

However, I stick by my original statement. Just because you have a computer and use a computer program to imitate musical instruments, does not mean you are a musician. In no way, shape, or form. If I said that generating musical instrument sounds on a computer entitled the programmer to "musician-hood", I would have to call X-box guitar players musicians as well. Granted, some musicians do play, but just because you play does not make you a musician.

Generating musical instrument sounds on a computer makes you a programmer. Plain and simple. Pick up an instrument, instead of a keyboard and mouse, make the same sounds, and I'll gladly call you a musician. Otherwise....you are just another programming computer geek.


[QUOTE=Vertigo;32410]90% of pop and over-popularized rap that's overplayed may be created that way, but I don't listen to that crap, and I'm not defending that crap.

No one here is. The whole statement was as follows:

It is not an artist collaboration at all. Sure that may happen with the REALLY big names, but that is not the norm at all.

To which you responded was basically bullshit because you watch behind the scenes rap artist DVD's.

Woo hoo. :wtf

[Bradzilla]

I just can't believe my ears, some music out these days
The human factor has diminished, in oh so many ways
Fancy footwork gets top bill and I'll put on such a show
One more Midi cable and my band is ready to go
One more moneymaker and I'm set for life
Stealing from others will make my future bright

One, make some money; two, overexpose
Sincerity is felt much more when the human factor shows
When the human factor shows

I just need a sample cause no one says it's wrong
It's so easy to rip-off using someone else's songs
Everybody wants to be a star in modern days
But if I don't have talent then I'll just get by this way
Changing programs faster than I dare to say
Musicians all make mistakes who needs them anyway?

One, make some money; two, overexpose
Sincerity is felt much more when the human factor shows
When the human factor shows

I just heard a song today I think I'll use a part
incorporate it my own way and that is just the start
I'll change the lyrics that they wrote to satisfy my needs
I wrote the book. Two easy steps. How to succeed.

I just can't believe my ears, some music out these days
The human factor has diminished, in oh so many ways
Fancy footwork gets top bill and I'll put on such a show
One more Midi cable and my band is ready to go
One more moneymaker and I'm set for life
Stealing from others will make my future bright

One, make some money; two, overexpose
Sincerity is felt much more when the human factor shows
When the human factor shows
When the human factor shows
When the human factor shows


Metal Church "The Human Factor" 1991

[MistressSpin]

:rotfl I love that song...

[Bonehead]

I don't know. It seems to me that the creation of music, by whatever means, still leads to the same result. It takes a certain ear, a particular talent, to be able to make music out of random sounds and loops.

I do not like rap, hip hop, or much of what passes as pop nowadays, but I think that to simply write off an entire genre of music because you can't appreciate the way they create it is somewhat snobbish. I do look down upon anyone that takes an entire song and simply does new lyrics with a new melody over it, changing just a few notes so that they don't have to pay royalities. That, I feel, is cheap and lazy.

What I hate the most is the crap that they turn out with a beat, and maybe one or two other synthesized sounds and put singing or rapping over it. I say to myself that "that ain't music" and feel smug about it. But alot of people think it is. Well, when I started listening to metal, most people around me said it was just a bunch of noise, and not music at all. I pointed out the musicianship it takes to play it, but most never did understand. I think that it might be the same case here.

Case in point....watch a good scratcher. Now, taking other people's music to create your own sound is borderline, in my opinion. But watching the effort, the creativity, the precision that it takes to make it sound right makes me feel that they are a musicial artist in their own right. Another is watching a good sound engineer. I guarentee you that "playing" a sound board in a live show is just as demanding and as important as any of the other instruments, and takes a very real musical talent to be able to do it right. Even the best guitarist, drummer, bassist, or vocalist will sound like crap if the soundperson is off. But before you say that they aren't creating anything and that makes them not a musician, let me point out that there are tons of musicians that never create a single piece of music themselves, but simply play what is put in front of them.

The same can be said for a producer taking loops in a studio and creating something new with it. Maybe we want to use a different term for people like these; instead of calling them musicians, maybe we should call them musical artists. What they do may not be musicians in the traditional sense, but they are streching the boundries of how music is made. Just think about how various enhancements have been looked upon over the course of rock and roll. Traditionalist hated electronic instruments, there were haters of electronic keyboards, haters of stomp boxes, haters of drum triggers, of vocal effects, and the list goes on. Technology isn't going to stop because any of us thinks that is no longer "music".

But like any musical genre, there will be those that do it well, and those that don't. And there is nothing that says that anyone has to like it. But to say that it isn't music.....well, I think that it all comes down to personal taste.

As my fav saying about this goes...there isn't any such thing as good or bad music, simply music that you like or don't like.

[Vertigo]

My, someone is certainly on the testy side today. :wtf



Old school is old school. How they did it then does not necessarily compute to how it is done now. Very similar, indeed, to metal....




I'm unsure of where, in that statement, I said that it was an invalid form of music. :wtf Maybe you can point that out to me.


(cont.) ...One of my friends spent $2500 on a "keyboard" that happens to be the same one used by professional rap producers. We even wrote a couple of songs together, using "real" instruments and then saved our songs on the hard drive of this "keyboard" and let me assure you that my friend of whom I speak is 100% a musician. [/url]

A keyboard is a musical instrument. It is a modern day replication of something called a piano. Difficult concept, I know, but none the less, it does implicate the keyboard as a musical instrument.

Downloading music from a keyboard to a computer to further edit, work with is called producing.

However, I stick by my original statement. Just because you have a computer and use a computer program to imitate musical instruments, does not mean you are a musician. In no way, shape, or form. If I said that generating musical instrument sounds on a computer entitled the programmer to "musician-hood", I would have to call X-box guitar players musicians as well. Granted, some musicians do play, but just because you play does not make you a musician.

Generating musical instrument sounds on a computer makes you a programmer. Plain and simple. Pick up an instrument, instead of a keyboard and mouse, make the same sounds, and I'll gladly call you a musician. Otherwise....you are just another programming computer geek.




No one here is. The whole statement was as follows:



To which you responded was basically bullshit because you watch behind the scenes rap artist DVD's.

Woo hoo. :wtf

I'm not on the testy side. I just don't like being told my opinion is not valid or being talked to like I don't know what I'm talking about.

I don't give a rats ass if you "woo hoo" over what I watch. I'm not trying to impress anyone. The reason that I stated that I watch them was to validate the fact that I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. Yes, old school is old school, and the methods are not exactly the same, but those movies and documentaries just validate my point more that a lot of these people have talent. I also have no "difficulty" understanding the "concept" that a keyboard is a modern day version of a piano. However the keyboard of which I speak also has a hard drive in it, which is a memory bank, which stores music, which is created with sounds that the keys make on the keyboard, which at least in my friend's case are not samples of other songs, but actual key strokes he plays himself and saves, the same style of which I'm sure a lot of rap background beats are produced in the same manner. The point of my response to your statement about LA was basically that you going to LA and talking to some dude on the street doesn't prove anything to me. I used the specifity of rap being invalid because that's what the thread was kinda going on about... BUT If you would like to stick to the statement It is not an artist collaboration at all. Sure that may happen with the REALLY big names, but that is not the norm at all. then I pretty much already stated my knowledge of that subject, which is that pieces of music (yes music) are put together by dudes, and brought to other dudes who rap over them, which to me is pretty much a collaboration. Sorry we disagree on this subject and sorry I'm standing up for my statements, for which you seem to think I'm being "testy" :kiss.

[Mark Carras]

Linda, have you ever heard of a spin doctor? Not the 90's era pop band, but the profession. Using a DVD put out by the artist is not a reliable source for investigating the true behind the scenes story on something. That is like someone only asking the Bush administration about the Bush administration and thinking they got the whole story.

I am not saying that rap is a music style that should be totally dismissed. I am just saying that it is the most inferior. Think of that as a guy saying 'The ugliest Penthouse playmate'. Just because you are at the bottom of a chart, does not mean anything more then everything else on that chart is better from that perspective or qualifications.

I play around with a program to create beats all the time for fun. I would do more with it, but everything ends up sounding like a rap song. So I know it is very simple. I do it all the time several times a year. I have never created a guitar riff by accident though.

Now if someone enjoys rap, I say enjoy away! There is nothing wrong with enjoying something simple. I like to sit on the couch with my arm around my wife and watch a movie. It takes less brain cells then the creation of any music style to do this. In fact, I call it unplugging my brain. I enjoy it though because it is simple and relaxing. So if rap is enjoyable to you and you get relaxed from it, I see no problem with that.

[Vertigo]

Yeah, hehe, I like the Spin Doctors.

No, I totally get what you're saying, and it's cool... I do watch the Jay-Z DVD called "Fade to Black" pretty often though with steven and it just has cameras in the studio and the guys showing him some beats and he picks the ones that stand out to him and just starts rapping over them off the top of his head, and I think that is pretty cool. I'm not saying every rapper is like that, but this DVD isn't propaganda... it's just a DVD of Jay-Z's live show at Madison Square Garden interspersed with clips of him in the studio, in the booth, on interviews, and just hanging out. That is my most solid example. I'm not saying I know everything about everything, but I'm just saying that when I read everyone's generalizations earlier I went "uh, no?" and had to speak up. I don't see how Jay-Z putting out his own DVD of some footage is not a trustworthy accurate account of how he spends his time in the studio. :rotfl

[Vish]

Korn = Death Metal

[Mark Carras]

Yeah, hehe, I like the Spin Doctors.

No, I totally get what you're saying, and it's cool... I do watch the Jay-Z DVD called "Fade to Black" pretty often though with steven and it just has cameras in the studio and the guys showing him some beats and he picks the ones that stand out to him and just starts rapping over them off the top of his head, and I think that is pretty cool. I'm not saying every rapper is like that, but this DVD isn't propaganda... it's just a DVD of Jay-Z's live show at Madison Square Garden interspersed with clips of him in the studio, in the booth, on interviews, and just hanging out. That is my most solid example. I'm not saying I know everything about everything, but I'm just saying that when I read everyone's generalizations earlier I went "uh, no?" and had to speak up. I don't see how Jay-Z putting out his own DVD of some footage is not a trustworthy accurate account of how he spends his time in the studio. :rotfl

Exactly, no one is ever going to show something incriminating in their own DVD.

Jay-Z is also a producer though, correct? Most of the big acts move to producing for a reason. That is where the real money is. That is also where the real talent is needed. As I said before, I can make rap beats. Some of them are probably pretty good. Producers like Jay-Z however can make a hit. Not sure if I could do that by accident...or maybe I can. :hmmm

Vish, want to kick off a rap career? I'll 'produce'. :rotfl

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Korn = Death Metal

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Vertigo]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Hahaha. Korn is the death metalist. :rotfl

I also never spoke on the original topic... I have the ipod hookup in my car and I usually leave it on random and I blast everything from metal to pop to rap on my drive home. I don't give a fizz what people think of it either - if they have a louder stereo then by all means I hope they have just as much fun as me blasting whatever they want.

[Phantomreaper]

Damn, you'd hate it in San Antonio, bro. We get those little bastards about every 3-4 cars in traffic here.....it's like some wierd symphany of retardedness in 5 'o' clock traffic where the only instrument used is a sythesized bass tone.

Oh please, try living near Pomona, Los Angeles, or Chino. You can't get away from it no matter where you go. What sucks is my neighbors got a pool and they blast that shit till midnight. Or there's my other neighbors who blast mariachi from like 5 P.M. till the sun is nearly up.

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Oh please, try living near Pomona, Los Angeles, or Chino. You can't get away from it no matter where you go. What sucks is my neighbors got a pool and they blast that shit till midnight. Or there's my other neighbors who blast mariachi from like 5 P.M. till the sun is nearly up.

Ever been to San Antonio? ;) We have Tejano to go along with the other annoying styles of music folks like around these parts.

[Bonehead]

I find it so funny here that all these white upper middle class kids drive around in their fancy cars and try to look gansta while pumping out the latest rap tunes. While there are quite a few blacks driving these "thumpers", the vast majority are white wannabes. Not quite sure how they hear anything over the overpowering bass, but that is all I am able to hear. I guess I just don't get it. :tard

I guess my point is these "thumpers" are everywhere.

[Vertigo]

I find it so funny here that all these white upper middle class kids drive around in their fancy cars and try to look gansta while pumping out the latest rap tunes. While there are quite a few blacks driving these "thumpers", the vast majority are white wannabes. Not quite sure how they hear anything over the overpowering bass, but that is all I am able to hear. I guess I just don't get it. :tard

I guess my point is these "thumpers" are everywhere.

I get what you're saying and I know just the type you're talking about. However there are some freaks like me who just have to blast some "phat" beats in their car every now and then, and I am in no way shape or form trying to look gangsta lol! Wouldn't work anyway, I'm short, white, female and usually dressed in black. hehe.

[Mythos Inibri]

Ok, I'm lost. What does that have to do with the topic at hand? :wtf

Pretty much how Black Metal is the opposite of Rap.:wtf
I used that particular song as the Perfect example.
the time changes..the use of alot more treble than bass....like the cymbals and snare being louder in the mix..buzzing guitars ,the speed...vocal sound..ect..
reread the first post,eh I'm never clear enough..turned out better that way anyways:)

[Mark Carras]

Pretty much how Black Metal is the opposite of Rap.:wtf
I used that particular song as the Perfect example.
the time changes..the use of alot more treble than bass....like the cymbals and snare being louder in the mix..buzzing guitars ,the speed...vocal sound..ect..
reread the first post,eh I'm never clear enough..turned out better that way anyways:)

Yeah, you should have said that you were trying to compare one with the other.

Don't worry, I suck at being clear too. :tard

[Bradzilla]

Volume > Bass. I could never understand why you'd want the bass turned up so high that it vibrates the ground, except that the rest of the frequencies are inconsequential and therefore don't need to be accentuated, whereas rock and metal music need a more even balance. Louder is always better than bassier.

[Phantomreaper]

Ever been to San Antonio? ;) We have Tejano to go along with the other annoying styles of music folks like around these parts.

Yes I have, and it is nothing compared to the shit I have to deal with here.

[MistressSpin]

.......just validate my point more that a lot of these people have talent.

I never denied that there wasn't talent; I simply stated that the majority don't.




However the keyboard of which I speak also has a hard drive in it, which is a memory bank, which stores music, which is created with sounds that the keys make on the keyboard, which at least in my friend's case are not samples of other songs, but actual key strokes he plays himself and saves, the same style of which I'm sure a lot of rap background beats are produced in the same manner.

Fairly certain that still qualifies as a keyboard, hi-tech tho it may be.

The point of my response to your statement about LA was basically that you going to LA and talking to some dude on the street doesn't prove anything to me.

Not exactly sure that I said it to prove anything; pretty certain what I tried to say is that talking with the rapper in Las Vegas about rap music, styles, creation, production, underground, etc was not a lot different than the way things are done here; merely a different influence on the artistic approach....the similarities between there and here in the production, creation of, doesn't lead a lot of credibility to the arguement that this genre is 100% talented and original. But in all reality, I know of no such genre. :shrug


I used the specifity of rap being invalid because that's what the thread was kinda going on about... BUT If you would like to stick to the statement then I pretty much already stated my knowledge of that subject, which is that pieces of music (yes music) are put together by dudes, and brought to other dudes who rap over them, which to me is pretty much a collaboration. Sorry we disagree on this subject and sorry I'm standing up for my statements, for which you seem to think I'm being "testy" :kiss.

I'm not sure that we do disagree...if we do, it is merely on the count that the majority of this genre of music, in my opinion, is untalented and unoriginal.

As for the whole thread, this thread is no different then a few other hot topics that tend to come up quarterly or so here on the RMM forums. I remember when I first came here the one that came up so often and would get me so worked up was the Metallica=sellouts and no talent hacks conversations. Let's for sure not get started on that one...:rolleyes
:rotfl

[MistressSpin]

musicial artist

I like that verbage.....and I can definitely agree that there are good musical artists out there, but I can't necessarily define a good musical artist as a musician. I see a significant difference there.

there are tons of musicians that never create a single piece of music themselves, but simply play what is put in front of them.

That doesn't mean they aren't a musician. They aren't a composer, choreographer, writer, whatever you wanna call it. Much like genre's having the good and the bad, musicians have the good and bad as well. A musician that creates their own music, in my opinion, is more talented than a musician who does not---but that doesn't mean that they still aren't a good musician. Does that make sense??? Probably not...but it sounded right for what I was trying to say...:D



But like any musical genre, there will be those that do it well, and those that don't. And there is nothing that says that anyone has to like it. But to say that it isn't music.....well, I think that it all comes down to personal taste.

As my fav saying about this goes...there isn't any such thing as good or bad music, simply music that you like or don't like.

I don't like "music" made by a keyboard and mouse. I think it sucks. :D

[MistressSpin]

Ever been to San Antonio? ;) We have Tejano to go along with the other annoying styles of music folks like around these parts.

If I were ever to become a musician, Tejano is the way to go man....those bands make $1500 a night over here.....

[Mythos Inibri]

Yeah, you should have said that you were trying to compare one with the other.

Don't worry, I suck at being clear too. :tard

Well I still think it would be cool if you took a listen to that song and posted a short review of it in Deathboy's metal forum..Whaddya say?:monkeythumb
c'mon Mark..please?I'd really like to know what you think of the song Paragon Belial.You're like one of the top guys in music reviews:bow
I'm not being sarcastic either.
You could put it under my Black Metal Gods post on the second page.

[Mark Carras]

Well I still think it would be cool if you took a listen to that song and posted a short review of it in Deathboy's metal forum..Whaddya say?:monkeythumb
c'mon Mark..please?I'd really like to know what you think of the song Paragon Belial.You're like one of the top guys in music reviews:bow
I'm not being sarcastic either.
You could put it under my Black Metal Gods post on the second page.

Is there a MySpace link? YOu do know that the vocals are what bugs me about this style right? So if the vocals are flat, I don't care how good the music is. To me it's like taking a dump on a nice juicy steak.

[Mythos Inibri]

They had different songs on their Myspace page,but I found it here,
I hope it works

http://www.last.fm/music/Darkthrone/_/Paragon+Belial

shit,I just found out that only plays part of it:(
eh, oh well...

[Mark Carras]

They had different songs on their Myspace page,but I found it here,
I hope it works

http://www.last.fm/music/Darkthrone/_/Paragon+Belial

shit,I just found out that only plays part of it:(
eh, oh well...

Sorry man. Just not my thing. The music is even pretty bland. The vocals are worse then most BM in that clip. Maybe that was just a bad part of the song? It sounded like an intro that was drug on too long or something. I kept waiting for the song to start...then the sample ended. Sorry, just not my thing. :shrug

FTR-I have never been that impressed with traditional black metal. Every song I have heard leaves me bored to no end. The Symphonic Black Metal however does have some moments where the music is up to par with that of the greatest classical composers.

[Mythos Inibri]

that clip doesn't really do them justice,the song is about 6 minutes long with about 5 other main parts..his vocals are pretty much like that all the time though so yeah,you wouldn't like them much.thanks for giving them a try.I'm really looking forward to their new album F.O.A.D. I'll review it here once I get my copy

[-deathboy-]

If I were ever to become a musician, Tejano is the way to go man....those bands make $1500 a night over here.....

a couple of friends of mine play in a neil diamond cover band called Cherry Cherry (http://www.cherrycherryband.com/). they make $2500 a show. they also sell out every single show they have played in the past two years now. interesting little piece of trivia for ya too...they feature neil babbit of coven fame on drums!

[Mark Carras]

a couple of friends of mine play in a neil diamond cover band called Cherry Cherry (http://www.cherrycherryband.com/). they make $2500 a show. they also sell out every single show they have played in the past two years now. interesting little piece of trivia for ya too...they feature neil babbit of coven fame on drums!

Such a far distance from McDonald Land Massacre. With so many band members though, how much of a cut do they get. :wtf

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

I find it so funny here that all these white upper middle class kids drive around in their fancy cars and try to look gansta while pumping out the latest rap tunes. While there are quite a few blacks driving these "thumpers", the vast majority are white wannabes. Not quite sure how they hear anything over the overpowering bass, but that is all I am able to hear. I guess I just don't get it. :tard

I guess my point is these "thumpers" are everywhere.

Good point, and I agree. The wannabe's give me more of a chuckle than anything else. The "real deals" just annoy me.

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

Yes I have, and it is nothing compared to the shit I have to deal with here.

My deepest sympathies.

[SHUT UP AND DIE]

If I were ever to become a musician, Tejano is the way to go man....those bands make $1500 a night over here.....

Dude....easiest job in the world: Tejano drummer.
"bass snare bass snare bass snare bass snare" Repeat over and over again, and then at the end of the song, "roll" on two toms. Done....money in the bank. :cool

[-deathboy-]

Such a far distance from McDonald Land Massacre. With so many band members though, how much of a cut do they get. :wtf

you know, i'm not exactacally sure. i'm willing to bet they make more than T.G. does though!

although i have to say i have drank thousands of $$'s worth of free beer!

[Mark Carras]

you know, i'm not exactacally sure. i'm willing to bet they make more than T.G. does though!

although i have to say i have drank thousands of $$'s worth of free beer!

Yeah, I am sure they make more in a few hours then I do at a full day at work. But to play ND songs...the thought makes me shutter. :pinky

[Vish]

damn... my second concert ever was neil diamond. im a big fan of his, actually.